Bad Experiences in the Church
Over the years, I have heard and read accounts of gay people having anger towards the Church. Thinking of their comments prompted this entry.
First, let me say that I have had negative experiences in the Church because of my SSA. I think an experience or two in seminary growing up and a couple experiences with bishops at BYU fall into this category. I understand people have negative experiences at the hand of insensitive Church members or leaders. It’s tough, and such experiences should not happen.
Members and leaders are not perfect. I don’t think the sins, mistakes, and shortcomings of some members and even leaders does not prove the Church is not true. I am not defending the “bad apples” or shortcomings. The Church claims the organization is “true”—not the leaders or members.
I have had to take a step back and evaluate some of the negative experiences I’ve had in a non-emotional manner. I can separate negative experiences from the doctrine. It’s tough to do, but in my experiences, it has been well worth the effort.
posted by Chris W. @ 10:44 PM
9 comments
9 Comments:
This is always the riddle. Whenever something bad happens who is to blame? Whenever something good happens who is responsible? It can't always be #1 members, #2 church/god. Beyond that, hello!? the church didn't just treat people badly, they TORTURED gay men at BYU. One of my friends used to be part of a therapy group at BYU and he asked the leader why they did it, and they simply said, we didn't know what else to do. How is that excusable? I understand how difficult it is to feel one's own feelings for what they are after so many years of saying the sky is green, going to meetings every Sunday where people say the sky is green, crying about how you know the sky is green, to finally think, maybe the sky isn't green after all, and what if everyone else will hate me for not thinking the sky is green, but seriously, take some evaluation to be completely honest about your feelings without the projection of whether it aligns with church doctrine, and I think you'll be surprised.
Hi Chris,
Thank you for sharing your convictions on this blog.
Thank you for your blog.
Chris,
Thanks for sharing your feelings on this blog. I have to say I don't necessarily agree with everything you say in your postings. Other things I wish I could discuss with you because I have questions.
With specific reference to this...bad experiences in the Church, it's an interesting topic. Although I am gay and no longer active I do not hold any anger toward the Church. To the contrary I love the gospel. It's members don't love me, though. I know that is a generalization but it has been my experience.
I realized this one Sunday as I was sitting in Elders Quorum class. The teacher was the father of one of the families I home taught. I forget now what the lesson was on but somehow the discussion turned to homosexuality.
The teacher said very specifically he knew that the prophet had said to love these people, but the thought or sight of them turned his stomach. After that the whole class errupted into a vigorous attack on the morality and character of all homosexuals. Never in my life have I felt more alone and more hated...while I was at Church
None of them knew I was gay, but I knew. I realized that if they knew I was gay they would hate me too. These men who were supposed to be my brothers, who were supposed to help me (bound by covenant) bear my burdens and I theirs.
I know that members and leaders are imperfect. I'm imperfect too and despite my knowledge that they are working on their own path, that they are dealing withe their own crosses and that the gospel remains true without them, I still cannot bring myself to make myself a part of people who I know hate me. Who would rather not see me than associate with me if they knew the truth about me.
I realize my experience is in one ward and that not every member or even the majority of people in every ward feel this way. Still, it happened to me and it still happens today.
I appreciate your convictions. Although I have a conviction of the truthfulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ I struggle on this issue. I am not sure that my Heavenly Father will condemn me for having a loyal, monogomous, uplifting relationship with another man.
Often I wonder if Church leaders, on this issue, are influenced more by their cultural biases than by the Spirit. I know that is a daring question. Please know, I don't mean to be disrespectful but I have honest, real questions. These same questions I have posed to my Church Leaders in the past.
In the 1960's the Church's repsonse to gay men was to live righteous lives and get married and many men were promised by Church leaders that this problem would leave them. If they would show their faith by marrying a righteous woman God would take this away.
Over and over again I have read, heard and seen stories where this is the case. Yet, none of these men found the relief they sought. My best friends' father was one of these men. Now the Church tells us that this is not a correct solution to this issue. So Church leaders were incorrect in their initial counsel.
In "The Miracle of Forgiveness" by Spencer W. Kimball, as prophet of the Church, he says that homosexuality can be cured in a few short months, maybe longer for those who are weaker. When I was still active, working out how to deal with my issue, I asked my Bishop, my Stake President where the program was that President Kimball referred to. I was told there was none.
My point is that if counsel and if modern day scripture (which A Miracle of Forgiveness is considered) has been in error before I believe it is fair to question and is even more so our responsibility to question.
Leaders and members are mortal and do err. So don't we have a responsibility to question. I do and answers I have not yet found. Peace such as is yours I have not yet found.
I appreciate this last comment. I know experiences are tough in the Church, and I certainly do not judge other people. I will write more about this topic soon.
I have discussions with my S.O. about this. He says the same thing as you, that the mistakes and sins of the members and leaders does not prove the Church is not true.
MY argument is that the Church IS the members and the leaders. That is what the Church is comprised of. The "Church" to some may be the religion (LDS) and its covenants, beliefs, words of wisdom, etc; but if that is the case, then why not just follow those beliefs and NOT be in the Church, which is precisely what the members and leaders comprise. Do you understand what I am trying to say.
I enjoy your blogs, see that you haven't posted in awhile and hope you are well. Thanks for letting me vent.
Anonymous, I wonder...just wonder, what exactly would have happened if you would have stood up (since you were going inactive anyway after that experience) and said, "do you all hate ME? I'M gay". They probably would have tried to send you to the Bishop to tell you about how you aren't really, etc; etc; and that you have to pray more, etc; but I am so curious as to what COULD or would have happened. My best to you on your journely.
Let us not forget that people are being driven to suicide by the inability of the church to deal with the complexity of life on planet earth.
I am sad when I hear of people having bad experiences with church leaders when they seek help for same sex attractions. I have same sex attractions but have been blessed to have only supportive leaders, friends, and family. I am working hard to do what is right and these people have been a strength to me. I am so glad you still have faith.
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